Mood:  d'oh

Putting this here to make it easier to find and see. I suggest reading the "reply to" posts as well to get a more appreciable view of the discussion.

Come on admit it. Everybody loves a good conspiracy theory especially when it involves cons and piracy.

 http://ragingbull.quote.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=VCSY&read=308789

By: moonpunk 04 Sep 2011, 02:43 PM EDT Rating:

Msg. 308789 of 308789 Jump to msg. #

By: moonpunk 03 Sep 2011, 02:52 AM EDT Rating:

Msg. 308733 of 308781 (Reply to 308732 by arthurarnsley01) Jump to msg. #

By: moonpunk 03 Sep 2011, 05:42 PM EDT Rating:

Msg. 308766 of 308773 (Reply to 308738 by smoothsailing20) Jump to msg. #

By: moonpunk 03 Sep 2011, 06:06 PM EDT Rating:

Msg. 308767 of 308773 (Reply to 308757 by bikeman66) Jump to msg. #

bikeman How much longer? There is a risk to Interwoven in making the VCSY claims construction document public. It gives Autonomy's competitors an understanding of what Interwoven is up against. In other words: what in Teamsite is in question and how does it match up to what VCSY IP is able to do?

The meter takes a big jump after September 13 Build when Microsoft will tell whether they can do what 744 says or not. If no Microsoft starts their slide into the pit for dismemberment. If yes HP starts their slide into the pit for dismemberment.

October 12 is the point where Interwoven and VCSY know what each side has. Interwoven then has 15 days to debate whether they can beat VCSY's arguments. It also gives VCSY a chance to petition the Judge to add to or alter the case based on what they've discovered.

If Microsoft can do what 744 says September 13 to October 12 is 30 days in which HP will be getting hammered by a rejuvenated Microsoft.

If Microsoft can not do what 744 says those 30 days are more relaxed for HP.

But either way until the case is settled HP/Autonomy won't be able to say a word in response to Microsoft's situation regarding 744 without risking a slap by the judge.

October 27 is the tripwire because the public gets to see a preview of the core Markman arguments. That public view will tell Microsoft precisely what they can do to cripple Interwoven's image in the eyes of clients and journalists.

By November 14 Interwoven will have to deliver a knockout punch or the public view will be permanently skewed.

November 28 is inconsequential.

December 14 is deadly for Interwoven unless the November 14 document delivers the knockout.

So all said and done I would expect Interwoven to settle before October 12. If not they are playing chicken and Microsoft then has an opportunity to ally with VCSY to hammer HP.

All based on the following schedule:
October 12, 2011: Completion of claim construction discovery.
October 27, 2011: Vertical shall file its opening claim construction brief.
November 14, 2011: Interwoven shall file its responsive claim construction
brief.
November 28, 2011: Vertical shall file its reply claim construction brief.
December 14, 2011 at 10:00 a.m.: Claim Construction Hearing

By: moonpunk 03 Sep 2011, 06:20 PM EDT Rating:

Msg. 308769 of 308773 Jump to msg. #

A little deeper:

Remember the complaint of the Microsoft MVP's about the ADO.net data entity framework? They said that it was unnecessarily confined to handling only data representation (see below) at the expense of expanded incorporation of many other behaviors into the data object namely that of "governance (govern business rules) and business logic". They saw the linkages possible yet being ignored and sandbagged by Microsoft management and decided to say so publicly. Oddly they did so one month before the VCSY v MSFT Markman hearing.

Here is what they said:
==================================
Entity Framework
http://efvote.wufoo.com/forms/z7x3p9/
While entities are data objects from the perspective of data storage and data storage technologies, entities are more significantly behavioral objects from the perspective of entity-oriented applications.

The Entity Framework’s focus is on the support the data storage aspects of entity objects at the expense of the primary use case for entities in software applications, which is to govern business rules and business logic. Without recognizing this key architectural enabler and distinction, the ADO .NET Entity Framework team has built only half of the story into the framework, and has over-produced the features and functionality for the aspect of the framework that a data storage product team might be predisposed to.
====================================

This was the case before the settlement. Jupiter being a framework for using so many different languages together along with linkages to the COM OS environment plus cherry-picking dll functionality using P/Invoke makes the idea of developing applications without governance a dangerous proposition. Therefore I conclude Microsoft has solved the prime complaint the MVP's had in June 2008 above and Jupiter is able to provide business rules and business logic to the behavioral entities within the applications built.

That means Microsoft Jupiter is able to treat data objects as full fledged entity objects meaning they may be used to build applications under a managed process that may be automated. Very good. Very encouraging. Looking forward to picking apart what Microsoft says at BUILD. It's increasingly more difficult to hide how a development environment works at this kind of level because the patent claims are quite clear and the marketing claims will have to be specific enough to educate those developers currently in shock because they believe Microsoft is crazy for putting so much emphasis on HTML/Javascript and denegrating their established culture and legacy.

By: moonpunk 03 Sep 2011, 07:18 PM EDT Rating:

Msg. 308771 of 308773 Jump to msg. #

Why companies are flocking to HTML5:

Because Apple had no choice. They're stuck in a no win situation trying to run for the fence with nothing to cushion the landing on the other side of that fence.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/30/why-companies-are-flocking-to-html5/?section=magazines_fortune
Why companies are flocking to HTML5
By JP Mangalindan, Writer-Reporter August 30, 2011: 11:06 AM ET

HTML5 apps are often limited when compared with their native counterparts. In LinkedIn's case, the feature sets are similar but the user interface is noticeably less flashy. Some mobile device's assets, like the camera, remain off-limits to HTML5. "Generally, there are certain areas where native is going to do better for you, like media photos and pictures," explains Joff Redfern, LinkedIn's mobile product head. "It's sometimes a little harder to get at via HTML5. Other areas, like say, 'infinite lists' that scroll with dates that continue on and on, are handled a lot more gracefully in native code." Box.net's Levie admits certain programming tasks are still difficult to achieve in HTML, like getting the iPhone and iPad's built-in Safari browser to allow file uploads.

Amazon's (AMZN) Cloud Reader made waves when it was announced a few weeks ago. While it has a polished user interface and offline reading capability, it's still rough around the edges with limited web browser support and a lack of notable features Kindle e-reader users already take for granted, including text highlighting, notes and full-screen reading.

It may take years before new HTML5 apps tackle more rigorous tasks that process lots of data, like video editing for instance.

=========================

Pressure created the HTML5 project in 2003.

Why? Because Microsoft was going to strangle everybody.

http://www.mcpressonline.com/analysis/analysis-of-news-events/microsofts-jupiter-projectan-inside-look.html

Microsoft's Jupiter Project--An Inside Look
Written by Lee Kroon
Sunday, 13 July 2003 18:00

Over the last several months, news has been drifting out of Microsoft about a project that will dramatically change the software giant's e-business solutions. The project, which bears the code name Jupiter, will create an e-business platform that could be attractive to many companies, particularly small and medium-size businesses. In the process, Jupiter could challenge Java-based alternatives from Microsoft's competitors, including IBM and its WebSphere franchise.

To a great extent, Jupiter is Microsoft's response to the challenges that today's e-business software poses to companies with limited IT resources. For such companies, most e-business software is overly complex and requires skills that they do not possess. Much of this complexity is due to the fact that individual e-business products--even those from the same vendor--require different skill sets. For instance, companies often must use one set of development tools for Web application servers, another set of tools for portal servers, yet another set for e-commerce applications, and so forth.

In addition, e-business software products vary widely in their support for industry standards. Even when they do support the same standards, their implementations of those standards can vary in significant ways. This creates further complexity when companies attempt to integrate e-business applications with legacy systems and with each other. Such complexity makes it difficult to integrate business processes across an enterprise, much less integrate processes that involve suppliers and other business partners.

In response to these problems, Microsoft wants to do for e-business software what it did a decade ago for office productivity applications. Just as it entered a market filled with standalone desktop applications and took it by storm with an integrated suite--Microsoft Office--it now intends to transform an e-business software market filled with similar standalone solutions.

The Elements of Jupiter

While Microsoft wants Jupiter to become the Office of e-business software, it realizes that it will take several years and at least two to three versions to make the new suite comparable to its desktop predecessor. As such, Jupiter is both a product and a long-term strategy to integrate key technologies from numerous Microsoft products. These technologies will include the following:

A single development environment--One of Jupiter's main design points will be the ability to create all types of e-business solutions--including commerce, portal, and content presentation applications--via a consistent development environment. Naturally, Microsoft's Visual Studio suite of development tools will fulfill this role. Within Jupiter, the two Visual Studio tools that will likely play the most prominent roles will be Visual Studio .NET 2003 and Visual Studio Tools for Office. While the former product is already shipping, the latter tool is currently available in a beta version for download.

A single runtime environment for all e-business applications--As developers write applications for Jupiter, they will--at least in theory--be able to deploy them to a single runtime environment. To achieve this, Microsoft intends to integrate the runtime components from its Commerce Server, SharePoint Portal Server, and Content Management Server products onto the Jupiter platform. This would allow users to deploy and seamlessly manage a wide variety of e-business applications through a consistent set of interfaces. These interfaces would provide a single set of services for content management, catalog management, personalization, and Web site management across all applications.

While Jupiter will act as a convergence point for Commerce Server, SharePoint Portal Server, and Content Management Server, it is unlikely that Microsoft will discontinue these products. Just as the software giant continues to sell individual Office products, so it will continue to offer its server products on a standalone basis.

An integration engine for applications and business processes--Microsoft wants to position Jupiter as the preeminent platform for Web-enabling legacy applications and integrating business processes that involve both employees and automated systems. To deliver these functions, Microsoft will make BizTalk Server 2004, which the vendor intends to ship in the fourth quarter of this year, a core component of Jupiter. The application integration product includes improvements in the areas of business process workflow management, support for XML Web services, and integration with Microsoft Office and Visual Studio .NET.

Integration with Office applications--Naturally, Microsoft wants companies to use Office applications as the interfaces of choice to Web applications built on Jupiter. To encourage such choices, Microsoft is already developing linkages between the products in Jupiter and Office 2003, the next version of the desktop suite, which will likely ship in the fourth quarter of this year. Office 2003 features XML Web services that will link Office applications with each other and with Windows server products, including those slated for inclusion in Jupiter.

Clearly, Microsoft's plans for Jupiter are ambitious ones. However, does the company have the right stuff to make its latest brainchild a giant among e-business platforms?


=================

Fortunately for everybody Microsoft was stopped cold by patent law. It gave HTML5 a chance to gestate and develop. No it's not mature yet. But at least it gave all of Microsoft's competitors a chance to rope Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates in to keep them from trampling the web.

Now if you haven't read patent 6826744 I suggest now would be a good time to start.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,826,744.PN.&OS=PN/6,826,744&RS=PN/6,826,744

By: moonpunk 03 Sep 2011, 09:17 PM EDT Rating:

Msg. 308774 of 308781 Jump to msg. #

By: moonpunk 03 Sep 2011, 09:55 PM EDT Rating:

Msg. 308776 of 308781 (Reply to 308774 by moonpunk) Jump to msg. #

So how did the HTML5/JS panic start in Microsoft?


"Microsoft community program manager Pete Brown, "None of us at Microsoft can say anything until //build/ in September. No one likes that, including me. That's all we can do, however." "


http://www.osnews.com/story/24846/Windows_8_HTML5_JS_Comment_Causes_Panic_Among_Developers
Windows 8 HTML5/JS Comment Causes Panic Among Developers
posted by Thom Holwerda on Mon 13th Jun 2011 18:30 UTC

As Julie Larson-Green was running through the new Mango-inspired Windows 8 interface, she loaded the weather application with current weather conditions and forecasts, she made her now infamous comment. "This is written with our new development platform, which is based on HTML5 and JavaScript [...] And so people can write new applications for Windows using the things that they, that they - are doing already on the internet," she said.

It may be hard to believe, but that's it. This is all that was said about HTML5 and JavaScript during the presentation. Larson-Green loaded a demo weather application, and stated this application was built using a new development platform that uses HTML5 and JS. Nothing more, nothing less.

She didn't say this would be the only development platform. She didn't say this was the preferred platform. All she said was - this specific application is built using a new development platform we're working on. Considering this is a demo about new stuff, it makes sense to mention that for Windows 8, developers can now also use HTML5 and JS to write applications.

If you think going from this to "zomg windows 8 will be 100% html5 and js only!11!" seems like somewhat of a stretch, you're not alone. Comments from Microsoft employees since then would seem to indicate that, by golly, of course Windows 8 isn't going to be HTML5/JS-only just because Microsoft is adding HTML5/JS as a way to write applications. It's just that they're not allowed to talk about it until the BUILD conference in September.

The comment was entirely ignored by Walt Mossberg and Kara Swischer, and Larson-Green, too, didn't seem to think too much of it. The same thing was said in an article on Microsoft's press website - one aspect of Windows 8 is "web-connected and web-powered apps built using HTML5 and JavaScript that have access to the full power of the PC".

By: moonpunk 03 Sep 2011, 10:05 PM EDT Rating:

Msg. 308777 of 308781 (Reply to 308776 by moonpunk) Jump to msg. #

Note: "Windows 8 will include something called 'Jupiter'"

This statement is from the URL in the previous post #308776.

It is important because it describes precisely the same situation Android finds itself in VCSY v LG and Samsung. The issue is that the development environment which handles content form and function is an integral part of Android - the ecosystem is inside the operating system.

That's a critical claim in patent 6826744.

Notice the same with Windows 8 from the above statement: "Windows 8 will include something called 'Jupiter'"

Or in other words the Microsoft operating system will contain the application development ecosystem - the ecosystem is inside the operating system.

Same thing. Or as they say in the beautiful deserts of Saudi Arabia "same same".

By: moonpunk 04 Sep 2011, 12:05 AM EDT Rating:

Msg. 308781 of 308781 (Reply to 308778 by arthurarnsley01) Jump to msg. #

arthur There are two ways to look at it. Nobody knows. XOR. Everybody knows.

Everybody that's anybody that is. Developers are routinely cautioned to not read patents. They are admonished to leave that sort of thing to top management architects and attorneys.

The result is that developers become aware of technological advances without ever knowing where those advances originate. They appear to come from on high in the corporate body and those origins are never questioned.

But we have one little article from 2003 here: http://www.mcpressonline.com/analysis/analysis-of-news-events/microsofts-jupiter-projectan-inside-look.html that describes Jupiter clearly and in doing so clearly delineates the fundamental claims of what was to become patent 6826744 the very next year.

Work began on the HTML5 language in 2003 and was enshrined in a body of people in 2004 a month before the USPTO allowed the 744 patent.

June 4, 2004 WHATWG open mailing list announced
"The Web Hypertext Applications Technology working group therefore intends to address the need for one coherent development environment for Web Applications."
http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2004-June/000005.html

August 27, 2004 Microsoft Longhorn rewrite announced. Winfs out of Longhorn.
http://www.microsoft.com/err/technet/content/windowsserver/longhorn/

August 31, 2004 VCSY SiteFlash Patent allowance
See USPTO PAIR Site at: http://portal.uspto.gov/external/portal/pair
and use application number: 09/410,334
Look for allowance notice under Image File Wrapper tab.

Anyone who has any technology background from 2000 to 2005 will recall Microsoft's highly touted and well advertised XML efforts. Central to that effort was codename Longhorn with the radically new XML based WinFS file system. Three days before the patent was allowed Microsoft announced the removal of WinFS from Longhorn.

Now we see Longhorn coming back. How is that possible? The IT industry hasn't a clue. But they get paid to look so they look in the places where the light is brightest. They never think of looking in the darkness where the clues point.

I won't pick through the many various movements made over the past years for brevity. Other timeline artifacts can be found here: https://ajaxamine.tripod.com/index.blog/1682851/but-the-norton-said-i-was-over-rhineshticken/
I include the comments as they may inform someone somewhere. Who knows? Maybe somebody will suddenly know.

Who would have known? Only the architects like Mark Lucovsky whose announced exit from MSFT to Google two weeks before the official grant of the 744 patent and management like Steve Ballmer who threw the chair would know what the real issues were. Their attorneys would certainly know because it's their job to know isn't it?

Steve Jobs obviously knew what was going on. The heads of Mozilla knew. The heads of Opera knew. Whatwg was formed by Apple Mozilla and Opera. I believe they acted in order to counter both the trajectory of the patent and the obvious background work Microsoft had been doing in their attempt to take the XML market before anything could be done by any others.

VCSY was granted the 6826744 patent November 31, 2004.

VCSY was delisted by the SEC December 1, 2004.

VCSY was cleared and relisted December 6, 2005.

We all know Microsoft's ballistic bombing run after that. But the industry acts like Vista and everything else Microsoft tried to do from the chair throwing act through Vista's collapse is an unfathomable mystery.

And they are easily fooled by Microsoft's far too clever settlement the day before the VCSY v MSFT Markman hearing July 25, 2008.

So what do we have? A story about a tiny penny stock company surviving from the dotcom era that should have disappeared long ago according to common consensus. Ignorant consensus made by people supposedly expert in their observations. A patent that sounds "too broad" yet has secured a continuance in 2010 (six f**king years later) with confirmation of the original claims and grant of additional claims.

But who took any of that seriously? The management architects and attorneys in the various companies that would be impacted certainly did. They kept a stone face and feigned ignorance for the furtherance of their paychecks and stock options and their vulgar prides.

"Developers"? Seriously? How many developers today know a tenth of XML theory that every hotshot dotcom era junkie could recite in their sleep? Remember the "Digital Decade"? Bill Gates knew and what did he do? He ran and hid under a boardroom mahogany desk.

"Journalists"? Seriously? How many journalists write contrary to what their editors and advertising heads insist? And where did all these editors and heads come from? They came from the rank and file workers and journalists who wrote about the XML realm from 2000 to 2004 when Microsoft suddenly STFU about XML without explanation. Nobody knew. Everybody knew.

Google began talking about XML after 2004 because Lucovsky seeded Google with what he had been taught in Microsoft and the one tool (XMLhttpRequest) Microsoft thought might allow them to conquer the desktop. That work became AJAX which secured market share while VCSY was struggling for its life against trumped up charges by the SEC.

Yeah. Who knew? Everybody and nobody.

Today Mary Jo is flailing around trying to comprehend Jupiter. Joe Wilson is thumbing through his comments to see if he can remember what happened. Cringely is enamored with his own presence. Mossberg is a religious relic. Scoble is a precocious gadfly flitting about in the cold air of the Ritz Carlton at Half Moon Bay. There is an army of names who've been asked to look into the situation and today they're still just as dumb as a tomato and as silent as a cold stare.

Steve Jobs is dying. So shall we all. If any of us think death does not wait look at the faces of children in Africa if you can stand it. Then look at the harrowing photos of a Jobs made public to soften the shareprice shock of his shriveled stem rotting off Apple's corporate body. If anyone wants to know why he pushed so hard for HTML5 it's getting a little late in the day to ask him isn't it? His sainted presence is spoken in hushed tones. But silence is about to fall from the last breath.

Steve Ballmer is famous for throwing a chair and there isn't one swinging whiteboard marker able to figure out what pissed him off. Google gave turncoat Lucovsky a cushy seat and he failed to provide anything of real substance for Google beyond extra bits to goose the golden search engine and a simplistic comm package to make a browser look like a desktop while providing no real functionality at all.

Who knew? They all did. The ones who "count". The ones who "run the industry". They all did and they kept the secret as tightly as they could and they succeeded with the help of PR firms willing to write for money from the famous or for favor for those in greatest need of secrecy. All good soldiers following orders as tightly as Sinofsky'a instructions from the corporate halo. All just "following orders".

tick tick tick

drip drip drip

There is a tale about an experiment done in India on a convict sentenced to death long ago when the British considered brown men an expendable chattal. He was strapped to a table with a needle inserted into his arm and a tube leading from his artery to a bucket. The rigging was intended to drain his blood as a means of execution. Only the tube was pinched off. Another tube from a bag of blood suspended under the table was opened to drip into the bucket.

Some think it may have been cow's blood although that would be a blasphemy in some people's eyes. But what's one cow when such an important experiment may be tested? It may have been the blood of another man. Perhaps just another doomed soul. But what's one brown death when those in power can learn how to take a life with no harmful guilt?

The man died without losing any of his own blood.

He just thought himself to death.

DRIP DRIP DRIP

The legacies of those who knew and know now are on the line in this business during this time of technological and economic disruption. Their legacies depend on an aura of believability.

I do not know if Microsoft will bother to mention VCSY's name or give them any credit at BUILD.

I do not know if one "journalist" will bother to dig any deeper than the thickness of the paper where the boss' talking points lie.

I do not know if one manager or architect or attorney will stand any taller than the mark their superiors scratched on the corner office doorpost.

But I do know truth is not a commodity. Truth is a jewel.

I know there will always be somebody who is bold enough to steal a jewel and sell it to the highest bidder. And that highest bidder will put that jewel where it will bring that person the greatest attention. And then the aura of believability will have to compete with something anyone can see for themselves with wonder and reality.

Microsoft is about to unveil an idea that will be an obvious means of increasing software productivity. The idea is so obvious nobody thought of it yet unless they read the 744 patent. And Microsoft will want to use that idea to extend their empire and the fame and fortunes of those who knew and who know how it was built.

But in all the adulation that is certain to be shown there is only one question to be asked: Why not sooner?

Why was the world of IT and their many customers and shareholders allowed to waste so much money for so long when the world could have made a revolutionary leap in capacity and efficiency long ago when Bill Gates proclaimed he knew about the Digital Decade?

Instead the IT customers and shareholders were bled drop by loud drop into contrived buckets through plumbing that went nowhere and they all believed those higher in authority had the right and ability to run any experiment they liked as long as it proved a point from on high.

By: moonpunk 04 Sep 2011, 10:24 PM EDT Rating:

Msg. 308792 of 308793 Jump to msg. #

Posted by Portuno Diamo at 11:24 AM EDT

Updated: Sunday, 4 September 2011 10:54 PM EDT

Share This Post

Post Comment | Permalink

Mood:  cool

Here we are in history where the cattle have broken into the feed crops. They won't stop eating until the landowner has been consumed. There is no escape. There is only a price to be paid and it will be taken by those who will crap out the landowner's riches into the dirt.

It could have been different. But those who believe they are entitled to power have deluded themselves and left no way of escape.

Begin

Do Until:

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 01:03 PM EDT

Msg. 301979 of 302059

It's time we got down to brass tacks without a distraction. Time to Xray the frog.

--------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 01:33 PM EDT
Msg. 301984 of 302059

If you understood your enemy you wouldn't be so easy to manipulate. That is unless you don't mind the enemy manipulating.

--------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 01:35 PM EDT
Msg. 301985 of 302059

As you can see mirror is unable to answer the questions put to him. He's playing for time so the questions will fade and be buried.

That's how the game is played. If you want to stand in the street to slow the game down fine but TOS is a tool and if you don't use it you become useful as a tool.

I thought people would understand this sort of thing after being around for so long. Unfortunately some people wake up in a new world every day so it takes a while for them to learn.

---------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 01:37 PM EDT
Msg. 301987 of 302059

So mirror how is it Clearmethods is making such obvious headway in what you claim is an obsolete technology? The technology displayed by Clearmethods is a clear indication VCSY's technology is powerful and timely.

----------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 01:46 PM EDT
Msg. 301988 of 302059


And Apple couldn't develop their own synch methods so they had to rip off a student?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/229993/did_apple_steal_a_college_kids_wifi_sync_app.html

What's up with that? When you can you do. When you can't you work. Or you steal?

Synchronization of data is a fundamental part of interoperability. Without synchronization there is no virtualization.

VCSY's patents demonstrate sync as a basic quality. Apple had to delay virtualizing Leopard at the same time Microsoft had to delay virtualizing. Right after VCSY sued Microsoft in 2007.

Ten years is a long long time to show you don't have the goods.

------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 01:48 PM EDT
Msg. 301989 of 302059
(Reply to 301987 by moonpunk)

Clearmethods are small fry and there are plenty of other similar open source XML-based languages out there. They aren't very popular amongst developers, who dislike working with XML syntax. Homegrown extensions of XML overflooded the IT world years ago, which is one reason why it never caught on all that much, and is also why they had to invent HTML5. You're years behind the times, Portuno.
Emily who?

--------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 02:03 PM EDT
Msg. 301991 of 302059
(Reply to 301989 by mrrrfk)


mirror "there are plenty of other similar open source XML-based languages"

Show them to us and explain how they do what Clearmethods is able to do.

Clearmethods products are the closest thing to the VCSY IP description publicly seen in the industry. The fact you can't confront that means you haven't gotten your talking points yet. Probably because the guy writing the talking points is stymied and unable to confront so you get left hanging.

Smallfry or not their XML methods are doing things the rest of the industry can't do.

Ray Ozzie thought he could do it with RSS. That fried and the gang that thought they could pull it off are trying something different.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/glassboard_rock_star_team_regroups_from_rss-land_t.php

Apple can't do it and it shows.

If you can't explain your way out of the situation just say so.

-------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 02:05 PM EDT
Msg. 301992 of 302059
(Reply to 301989 by mrrrfk)

Clear Methods' Language Gets Cool Greeting
The object-oriented language is being greeted with skepticism by programmers, development tool suppliers, and Web-services consultants.

By Charles Babcock InformationWeek

The notion that the world needs XML as a procedural programming language is being greeted with skepticism by programmers, development tool suppliers, and Web-services consultants.
[...]
http://www.informationweek.com/news/12800989

"XML can be used to express procedural logic. It would be on the verbose side, but it can be done," said Sam Ruby, VP of the Apache Software Foundation, the open-source group that develops the Apache Web server. Ruby is also a member of Apache's XML Project Management Committee--that is, a programmer with the authority to commit new code to the Apache XML project's repository. "I don't see many people wanting to learn such a language. Perhaps such a language could have a niche as the target of code generation ... by a wizard in an IDE," he said in an E-mail response. Ruby is a Java programmer with IBM.

Water code would require the Steam Engine run-time environment. Clear Methods unveiled an upgraded version 3.10 of Steam Engine on July 15.

"A specialized run-time environment is a big minus," Ruby said. That's because the run-time environment must already be installed on target systems where Water code is slated to run, or a user must first download the engine and install it before getting the benefit of Water code, experienced programmers says. Users balk at downloads they don't understand or need approval from higher corporate authority to add to their desktops.

XML as a programming language "is a cute academic idea, but nothing more than that," Brad Young, director of product marketing for Zend Technologies Ltd., said in an E-mail. Zend produces an integrated development environment for the PHP scripting language, one of the Web-site languages that XML procedural logic might replace. "Programmers don't like coding in nested syntax, like XML."

-------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 02:06 PM EDT
Msg. 301993 of 302059
(Reply to 301992 by mrrrfk)

XML as a programming language "is a cute academic idea, but nothing more than that," Brad Young, director of product marketing for Zend Technologies Ltd., said in an E-mail. Zend produces an integrated development environment for the PHP scripting language, one of the Web-site languages that XML procedural logic might replace. "Programmers don't like coding in nested syntax, like XML."

--------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 02:07 PM EDT
Msg. 301994 of 302059
(Reply to 301992 by mrrrfk)

XML is already "an open standard for storing information and being able to transport it," says Tom Barrett, a partner at PricwaterhouseCoopers and a consultant on Web services. As such, it already includes much of the document-processing and data-movement capabilities that Clear Methods appears to be talking about on its Web site, he says.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/12800989

--------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 02:08 PM EDT
Msg. 301995 of 302059
(Reply to 301994 by mrrrfk)

But programmers, software tool suppliers, and Web-services consultants and analysts agreed that until there was a large base of programmers making use of Water, XML as a programming language was likely to be rare encounter on the Web.
"The big catch is developer acceptance," Bloomberg says. "Clear Methods is still pushing the snowball up the hill. It hasn't reached the point where it's rolling down the hill, gathering strength."

--------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 02:09 PM EDT
Msg. 301996 of 302059
(Reply to 301992 by mrrrfk)


That article is from July 21, 2003. And yet the list of partners and customers using that technology has grown since the Water language was deleted from wikipedia after you began discussing in on Yahoo.

So come up with something more substantial. Either that or admit you don't know because as the article says "XML can be used to express procedural logic". But you said it can't. And remember "ten years" of development has been popping up in all kinds of places recently where advanced computing using XML as a procedural language is being revealed.

As I've shown I am open to admitting when I'm wrong and I am willing to be shown to be wrong. So let's see how good you are.

---------------------------

By: danthomas 10 Jun 2011, 02:13 PM EDT
Msg. 301997 of 302059
(Reply to 301992 by mrrrfk)


mrr no date on your post.
I'll post the date for you.

July 21, 2003 10:00 AM

8 yrs old.
how is it doing now?

-------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 02:15 PM EDT
Msg. 301998 of 302059
(Reply to 301994 by mrrrfk)

That's true of XML as a traditional sense and is the reason the industry has been stagnant since Bil Gate's published his "Digital Decade" speech almost ten years ago. But what we're talking about here is VCSY patents saying they use XML to go beyond the traditional uses to form a basis for an all-XML language for procedures and functions.

VCSY's 6826744 and 7076521 patents show clearly you're wrong because the VCSY material in VCSY v LG and Samsung shows clearly 6826744's methods are used in Android.

I thought you said that idea was obsolete?

So Clearmethods using what can be easily shown to be VCSY IP is being used in MIT and IBM to build advanced systems. We know the basic foundation for IBM's Watson was established at MIT so you have a real problem trying to sweep that work away.

You need to do better than that or your friends will be upset with you.

-----------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 02:16 PM EDT
Msg. 301999 of 302059
(Reply to 301995 by mrrrfk)


Like danthomas points out you always leave off dates in your references. Do you have a problem cutting and pasting article dates?

"until there was a large base of programmers making use of Water, XML as a programming language was likely to be rare encounter on the Web"

Looks like that's in the process of changing. Or can you explain why Water is being used by so many high profile advanced users?

-----------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 02:17 PM EDT
Msg. 302000 of 3 02059
(Reply to 301996 by moonpunk)


Clearmethods is old news. Like I said, you are years behind the times. Clear Methods is a tiny company working in a niche market of open source XML-based junk that most developers won't go near. Why don't you provide a more current link that says something good about them that isn't from Clearmethods. Oh let me guess; they are working in stealth mode, lol.

-----------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 02:22 PM EDT
Msg. 302001 of 302059
(Reply to 302000 by mrrrfk)


You're years behind because you keep relying on articles that are almost ten years old when Teledyne, IBM, the US Army, the US Air Force, General Dynamics, MIT and others are using XML procedural and functional methods which you claim is obsolete.

There's something wrong with the way you're looking at things obviously.

Stealth? Given that most of the partners and customers are defense oriented I would think they should be working under a stealth operation.

You can try ridicule all you like but it doesn't remove the fact that you don't have anything to show for all your claims of knowledge. Try again.

"Pratt & Whitney is using Steam XML at the core of a mobile, distributed computing architecture to improve both supply chain efficiencies and customer support. Steam XML provides a secure, flexible software platform for their innovative wireless, embedded maintenance system. "

---------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 02:30 PM EDT
Msg. 302002 of 302059


It looks like Clear Methods has done very little since 2009 when the 2 founders began working for TextMyFood which I am sure is going to revolutionize the IT industry, LMAO. The Clear Methods website hasn't been updated for years.

-------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 02:36 PM EDT
Msg. 302004 of 302059


Man cannot live on Water alone, which must explain why the Clear Method founders now work for TextForFood (which is basically an Open Table ripoff.)

------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 02:39 PM EDT
Msg. 302005 of 302059
(Reply to 302002 by mrrrfk)


Oh. So the Clearmethods company has been working with defense contractors for about 7 years and then they went on to work on their own thing in 2009?

That's interesting. So November 2009 is around the time when the Clearmethods founders were able to work out in the public with their IP.

Hmmm. And you claim that means the idea is dead? You said XML languages are all over the place. But then you say developers quit using them about seven years ago.

"Homegrown extensions of XML overflooded the IT world years ago, which is one reason why it never caught on all that much, and is also why they had to invent HTML5."

So all these public developers abandoned an XML version that could do everything they said they wanted and they turned around and invented an HTML version to do what they say they wanted and here we are five years later and HTML still doesn't do what developers could have been doing with XML all this time. That is if those developers could have gotten their hands on it during the time it was being matured with defense contractors.

Do you see how badly that kind of thinking does not make sense?

When something doesn't make sense it means somebody isn't telling the whole story. What are you afraid to say mirror?

-------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 02:40 PM EDT
Msg. 302006 of 302059
(Reply to 302004 by mrrrfk)


Water as Steam makes clouds.

--------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 02:42 PM EDT
Msg. 302007 of 302059


"Water and Steam have allowed us to consolidate what would normally be multiple code-generating layers of applications into a single software systems architecture approach that is powerful, adaptable and user-friendly.”"
- Dave Loda, founder and manager of the Applied Technologies Group, an internal innovation hub for United Technology's Pratt & Whitney division.

So now point to one of your HTML developers to show they are able to take "multiple code-generating layers of applications into a single software systems architecture".

And may I point something out in that statement? "multiple code-generating layers".

Do you understand what that means?

---------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 02:52 PM EDT
Msg. 302008 of 302059
(Reply to 302005 by moonpunk)


Nope. TextMyFood is based on Ruby-on-Rails, a real modern-day programming language, not Water.
Their LinkedIn accounts tell us this:
http://www.linkedin.com/search?
search=¤tCompany=C&company=TextMyFood&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=
true&goback=%2Efps_PBCK_Michael+plusch_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_
*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_1_R_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_
*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2
(broken link)

--------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 02:55 PM EDT
Msg. 302009 of 302059
(Reply to 302008 by mrrrfk)


Audrey J. Founder TextMyFood
Privately Held; Hospitality industry
November 2009 – Present (1 year 8 months)
Developed SMS/web-application software in Ruby-on-Rails


http://www.linkedin.com/search?
search=¤tCompany=C&company=TextMyFood&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=
true&goback=%
2Efps_PBCK_Michael+plusch_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false
_1_R_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_
*2_*2_*2
(broken link)

-------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 03:01 PM EDT
Msg. 302010 of 302059
(Reply to 302008 by mrrrfk)


The whole idea of an XML based programming environment is that the XML commands can wrap around any other language or code modules so the idea the Water founders are using nothing but ROR is pretty far fetched.

By the way "2010" was only six months ago. And you're saying the founders did nothing else from 2009 onward? Why do you think that's the case? Evidence? I would say the evidence shows MIT is using Water and Steam and has made great strides in using XML as a procedural and functional processing language. That's why IBM's Watson uses the XML-based foundation from MIT.

Your claim that XML based programming somehow mysteriously "died" years ago but continues to show up today doesn't make sense.

I really do wish you had experience and knowledge in this area so there could be a real conversation instead of all your specious dodges.

------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 03:04 PM EDT
Msg. 302011 of 302059


It only takes a few minutes of online dd to prove Portuno's BS to be wrong. I just can't resist raining water on his parade, sometimes. LOL.

----------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 03:07 PM EDT
Msg. 302012 of 302059
(Reply to 302010 by moonpunk)


Don't try to change the subject. Tell us more about how Water is being used in TextMyFood. Oh right, it isn't, you just made that up because you saw that the Clear Methods founders are working their now, where Ruby-on-Rails is the dev platform. Oops!

--------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 03:15 PM EDT
Msg. 302013 of 302059
(Reply to 302011 by mrrrfk)


Nothing you've supplied pulls you out of the hole. Clearmethods along with all their partners and customers have been using the closest thing to VCSY's IP since 2001 and all the way to 2010 and you claim the founders are now using RoR exclusive of any of their techniques after all that time.

What kind of idiots to you take people for mirror? Is life that easy for you that you can tell people something that doesn't make sense and they just say "OK" and walk on?

http://xml-simple.rubyforge.org/

The whole idea is to be able to use XML based concepts to wrap code and make the code agnostic. That's what the VCSY patents show. I would say Clearmethods has to honor the VCSY patents and patent pending work in public until Wade is ready to say so in public so their use of RoR isn't so odd or difficult to understand to me.

Work between the two should be interchangeable. Apparently you have a real problem understanding what XML code means. That's to be expected I suppose but it doesn't excuse you making things up.

----------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 03:20 PM EDT
Msg. 302014 of 302059
(Reply to 302008 by mrrrfk)


mirror You know nobody wants to accuse you of trickery but you've already said you enjoy lying because you think you're good at it so would you mind cutting and pasting the content from this link you supplied?

http://www.linkedin.com/search?
search=¤tCompany=C&company=TextMyFood&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=
true&goback=%
2Efps_PBCK_Michael+plusch_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false
_1_R_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2
_*2_*2
(broken link)

It would help everybody to know what was said there.

---------------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 03:38 PM EDT
Msg. 302015 of 302059
(Reply to 302014 by moonpunk)


And if anyone else has access to Linkedin please post the content of the link mirror posted.

Meanwhile this from the same article mirror used.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/12800989
Clear Methods' Language Gets Cool Greeting
The object-oriented language is being greeted with skepticism by programmers, development tool suppliers, and Web-services consultants.

By Charles Babcock InformationWeek
July 21, 2003 10:00 AM

"Water is a full-featured object-oriented programming language, expressed in XML. It does more than Java does," says Jason Bloomberg, an analyst with Zap Think, an XML-oriented research group. It was designed to include security measures in the code so that it can move safely over the network. Water has built-in restrictions that prohibit it from calling files off a user's hard drive or changing the system software where it resides, he adds. Because it uses XML syntax, "it's not learning a new language for seasoned developers. They're already conversant in with XML," Bloomberg notes.

So what's the problem? We all have to wait until 2022 for HTML5 to do what could be done back in 2003?

Does that make sense to anybody? ANYBODY?

-------------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 03:44 PM EDT
Msg. 302016 of 302059


Careers at TextMyFood

If you would like to apply for any of the openings posted below, please send your résumé and a cover letter to jobs@textmyfood.com. Phone calls or recruiter inquiries are not welcome.
Software Engineer
Location: Boston, MA


This position is responsible for software engineering, design, and development of client and server-side TextMyFood software modules. Tasks include writing functional specifications, design documentation, coding, unit testing, debugging, integration, performance tuning, and maintenance of assigned software modules. Provides information to documenters, testers and customer service personnel on features and functionality of software modules. Provide technical support with complex field issues. Covers all responsibilities of the Software Engineer position. May involve some on site work with clients. Other duties as assigned. Acts as individual contributor as well as team member. Usually works with little supervision, conferring with others in the department on unusual or extremely complex matters. Assignments are broad in nature, usually requiring originality and ingenuity. Has appreciable latitude for un-reviewed action. May provide guidance, assistance, and technical leadership to lower level software engineers on more complex/large projects. Errors may cause major costs or significant disruption to operations. Able to work effectively with product marketing and other TextMyFood personnel to clarify functional requirements, review software designs, etc. Able to explain software functionality from a user’s or customer’s perspective. Occasionally designs and presents technical presentations to a variety of audiences. Interacts internally/externally on an as needed basis to exchange information.


JOB DESCRIPTION
Bachelors degree in technical discipline (ideally in computer science or engineering), or equivalent experience. 2+ years of software design and development experience. Knowledge of appropriate programming languages, databases, and/or operating system technology, specifically including:

Ruby
JQuery
Ruby on Rails
CSS
JavaScript
JSON
HTML5
REST Web services
mySQL
UI development
iPhone experience desirable, but not required

http://www.textmyfood.com/SWJobDescription.html

- - - -

Gee, I see HTML5, but no Water or XML.
Hmmmmmmmm.

-------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 03:50 PM EDT
Msg. 302017 of 302059
(Reply to 302016 by mrrrfk)


That's it? THAT is your "proof"? How is it you take so little to "prove" what you believe but you absolutely refuse to consider a common sense explanation.

Why would they ask for somebody with experience with Water if they could teach any experienced developer what they own in a short time?

What is it with you?

"Bachelors degree in technical discipline (ideally in computer science or engineering), or equivalent experience. 2+ years of software design and development experience. Knowledge of appropriate programming languages, databases, and/or operating system technology, specifically including:

Ruby
JQuery
Ruby on Rails
CSS
JavaScript
JSON
HTML5
REST Web services
mySQL
UI development
iPhone experience"

All that modern experience and you think that person couldn't begin using something like Water from the moment they sat at their desk.

No wonder you didn't want to include the content in your original post.

Come on mirror. You have to do better than that. A kid can come up with a better ruse than that.

--------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 03:53 PM EDT
Msg. 302018 of 302059
(Reply to 302016 by mrrrfk)


You also fail to account for the fact Water is described in Clearmethods literature as a rapid prototyping language. I would expect that to be the stage all maturing development is done in defense environments to prove out the language's advantages over the course of time.

Are you ready to actually have a mature discussion about all this or are you going to do nothing but run around the bush in hopes you can dodge out?

-------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 04:07 PM EDT
Msg. 302019 of 302059


Why are you running over to Yahoo instead of dealing with the questions here mirror? Can't answer? Don't have a clue? Talked yourself into a hole?

How about staying here for a while and giving everyone a chance to watch how you work. I'm sure they'll all be really impressed.

http://waterlanguage.org/
"The language is as easy as BASIC and as powerful as LISP."

"...by programming in XML syntax with Water, you can streamline the creation of complex Web services–for example, how a complete Web service can be implemented in one line of code."

That's what a very high level language should be. It's the kind of thing Emily accomplishes. There's no doubt in my mind Wade knows all about Clearmethods and they've had some form of accommodation working for them to do so much work with US Defense and IBM at MIT.

So where's the "proof" in your LinkedIn post mirror? You didn't show any.

------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 04:15 PM EDT
Msg. 302020 of 302059
(Reply to 302010 by moonpunk)


mirror This is from 2008.

I would think you would be excited to see this kind of thing given it would mesh perfectly with HTML5. It would give immediate high level automation capabilities to your favorite HTML5 Graphic User Interface.

http://waterlanguage.org/water_b-tree_2008f.pdf

In fact I don't see why an XML based code would be such a problem since any code module could be tagged and used for automation and control using something like Water.

But you don't like that at all. You say the only reasonable way for the software industry and their partners and customers to perform automation functions is to wait until Web Workers is accepted by a mountain of developers. You know. The same argument you claim stopped XML coding dead back in 2003. But we know you're wrong from what we've seen now.

VCSY IP is alive and well as demonstrated by what Clearmethods has done and demonstrated by the whitepaper descriptions of a much more effective and proficient use of developer time over existing traditional programming languages.

-------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 04:18 PM EDT
Msg. 302021 of 302059
(Reply to 302019 by moonpunk)


Portuno, when are you gonna supply some current links from someone other than Clear Methods to hype Clear Methods? LOL.

-------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 04:19 PM EDT
Msg. 302022 of 302059


About Clear Methods Inc
Clear Methods Inc in Cambridge, MA is a private company categorized under Website Design Service. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of $500,000 to $1 million and employs a staff of approximately 1 to 4.

http://www.manta.com/c/mm3491n/clear-methods-inc

Even VCSY is bigger than Clear Methods. In all fairness, mantra.com was launched in 2005, so this info might be a few years old, but the fact is, the founders of TINY Clear Methods are now working for TextMyFood to put some food on their tables.

LMAO!

-----------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 04:24 PM EDT
Msg. 302023 of 302059
(Reply to 302021 by mrrrfk)


You can ask portuno that on Yahoo but I would say when are you going to produce some more recent articles slamming XML based programming? 2003? Really. All the information I showed with XML at work is as close as 2010. What happened to all that "abandoned" work you claim happened?

AND when are you going to come up with a critique of Clearmethods IP from somebody other than Clearmethods competitors?

https://www.youtube.com/user/< A=""> color="#ff0020">ClearMethods

------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 04:26 PM EDT
Msg. 302025 of 302059
(Reply to 302022 by mrrrfk)

LMAO

<>https://www.youtube.com/user/< A=""> color="#ff0020">ClearMethods#p/u/1/IT8vVAFXJGw

------------------------------


By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 04:31 PM EDT
Msg. 302026 of 302059
(Reply to 302025 by moonpunk)


That link is also from ClearMethods. Try again.

----------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 04:36 PM EDT
Msg. 302027 of 302059
(Reply to 302026 by mrrrfk)


Doesn't matter. It's reality. A reality you say doesn't exist. In fact you claim all that kind of work ended back in 2003 so everyone had to invent HTML5.

How wrong how wrong you are.

So when are you going to show me some examples of HTML5 that do what Water shows it can do? Come on mirror. Something small. I know HTML5 must be out there in secret somewhere doing what XML could do in 2003. There must be. Either that or you're trying to pull the wool over everbody's eyes here.

So let's see your examples. Chop chop little guy. You've been running long enough.

-------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 04:50 PM EDT
Msg. 302028 of 302059


Top Programming Languages for 2011
Java has dominated the programming jobs rankings for the last several years and remains dominant going into 2011. According to Simply Hired, since April 2009, Java jobs increased 52 percent, Perl jobs increased 33 percent, C# jobs increased 52 percent, Objective C jobs increased 60 percent (however, a search for "Objective-C" showed a 207 percent increase in jobs), Visual Basic jobs increased 112 percent, JavaScript jobs increased 76 percent, Ruby jobs increased 78 percent, Python jobs increased 69 percent, C jobs increased 11 percent and PHP jobs increased 58 percent.

<>http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Java-C-C-Top-18-Programming-Languages-for-2011-480790/

Where are all the XML-based programming languages?
portuno/moonpunk said they were being widely adopted. Bzzzt! WRONG.

------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 04:58 PM EDT
Msg. 302029 of 302059
(Reply to 302028 by mrrrfk)


Dodge and weave. Run and hide. Everything you're pointing to could be done years ago by little tiny Clearmethods hiding in MIT working on defense projects.

It's a markup language that does what HTML5 won't be able to do for many many years to come.

So why? How is it Water being worked in MIT for the defense industry could already do all the things you so proudly claim HTML5 will one day do? I would think you would be really thrilled to see XML markup pulling off what all those other languages could do. It would mean HTML5 could then easily load up all those methods and be used just like HTML.

Isn't that what you wanted? Isn't that what Steve Jobs wanted? Isn't that what all your developer buddies wanted? How is it when you're handed something in 2003 you all cry that's not what you want and you invent HTML5 to one day in 2022 do what XML could do?

-----------------------------


By: johnnnyri 10 Jun 2011, 04:59 PM EDT
Msg. 302030 of 302059
(Reply to 302028 by mrrrfk)


mrrk

how does it feel to be right anout this POS stock for 11 years?

if you were a good guy you would teach all these moron pimps some of your vast technical knowledge.

you are one of the very few honest posters here. this shines through daily like a brilliant star.

--------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 05:00 PM EDT
Msg. 302031 of 302059
(Reply to 302030 by johnnnyri)


johnnyri How does it feel to have such a putz for a hero? Maybe you like that kind of thing.

---------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 05:01 PM EDT
Msg. 302032 of 302059
(Reply to 302029 by moonpunk)


"Everything you're pointing to could be done years ago by little tiny Clearmethods hiding in MIT working on defense projects. "

Ahh, when you can't back up your BS, there's always the stealth argument. Yeah, it's all happening in "hiding". LOL. Pathetic.

-----------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 05:05 PM EDT
Msg. 302033 of 302059
(Reply to 302032 by mrrrfk)


No. Just saying what Clearmethods said back in 2003.

How is it when you can't reply you always try to change the subject?

Show us an example of HTML5 doing what Water was doing in 2003.

Heck I'll give you a break. Show us an example of HTML5 doing what Water was doing in 2007.

---------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 05:14 PM EDT

Msg. 302034 of 302059
(Reply to 302033 by moonpunk)


Water wasn't doing much of anything in 2003, and it isn't being used for much of anything now. The creators of Water have been working for TextMyFood since 2009, which BTW uses HTML5 along other technologies like Ruby-on-Rails. HTML5 is the designated standard for Web application development. Why do you insist on living in the past? Nobody cares about Water, except you.
BTW, the bostonwater.org group went defunct and haven't had a meeting in over a year.They are all probably programming in Ruby and learning HTML5 now. LOL.

-------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 05:37 PM EDT
Msg. 302036 of 302059
(Reply to 302034 by mrrrfk)


Actually the language was functional in 2003 and HTML5 is still struggling.

Everybody here cares about finding out how VCSY's technology would work. Clearmethods Water/Steam is the closest we can find to fitting what the VCSY patents say. It's a much easier language because it only requires a few lines to do what it takes four times in javascript to do.

But what do you care right? You're a developer and the more lines of code you have to write the more you get paid so I can see why you're fighting this so hard.

The web industry needs a new way to program and markup programming seems to be what they want. MIT seems to have settled on using XML. You developers seem to not know how to use XML. "Too hard" you say. So you have to have something made for you so you can work.

Meanwhile defense contractors are doing with XML what you claim HTML5 is supposed to do. That's what I've suspected VCSY IP has been doing all along. HTML5 was made to attempt to compete. So far nothing.

--------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 06:15 PM EDT
Msg. 302042 of 302059


mirror HTML5 examples please?

--------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 06:31 PM EDT
Msg. 302043 of 302059
(Reply to 302042 by moonpunk)


moonpunk,
HTML5 is not a programming language, and doesn't try to be. It is a markup language with hooks and built-in API's so real programmers can use real programming languages with it, depending on what language is the best fit. Developers know better than to try and use a mark-up language like XML or HTML to do intense logic or automation. HTML5 in conjunction with Java, javascript, C++, perl, ruby, etc. is what developers are migrating towards. The XML-based programming fad has been mostly abandoned, though there is still some of that junk still around, of course. XML will continue to be mostly used for what it was designed for, simple text data management.
You need to get out of the past, Mr. Visionary. LOL.
Emily who?

-----------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 06:37 PM EDT
Msg. 302044 of 302059
(Reply to 302043 by mrrrfk)



"and doesn't try to be"

That's not what you said all last year. You even point to Web Workers to show that HTML5 is intended to run automation. Didn't you argue all that time that HTML5 was going to take over automation using web applications?

Strange. I could swear that's what you were saying all last year. Have you changed your tune again?

"The XML-based programming fad has been mostly abandoned, though there is still some of that junk still around, of course."

Yeah. In MIT. In the US Air Force. In the US Army. In IBM. In Teledyne. In General Dynamics.

I guess you don't read much. Maybe that's why you don't know these things.

---------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 06:43 PM EDT
Msg. 302045 of 302059
(Reply to 302043 by mrrrfk)



mirror says "The XML-based programming fad has been mostly abandoned, though there is still some of that junk still around, of course. XML will continue to be mostly used for what it was designed for, simple text data management."

Somebody needs to tell that to the US Government. Somebody sold them a load of goods. Contact mirror and he'll tell all of you where you went wrong.


LOL

----------------------------------

By: interwovenkills 10 Jun 2011, 06:45 PM EDT
Msg. 302046 of 302059
(Reply to 302044 by moonpunk)


moonpunk,
HTML5's web workers feature is intended to allow scripts written in JavaScript (or other languages) to run in the background (i.e. automation) but HTML5 calls and coordinates those scripts, but the code that actually does the background script logic is written in a real programming language and the results can be passed back to the HTML5 user if necessary.
Must I teach you everything? I suggest you read up on HTML5, since you are supposed to be a visionary tech guru.



Computing with JavaScript Web Workers

Web Workers are, undoubtedly, the coolest new feature to arrive in the latest version of web browsers. Web Workers allow you to run JavaScript in parallel on a web page, without blocking the user interface.

Normally in order to achieve any sort of computation using JavaScript you would need to break your jobs up into tiny chunks and split their execution apart using timers. This is both slow and unimpressive (since you can't actually run anything in parallel - more information on this in How JavaScript Timers Work).

With our current situation in mind, let's dig in to Web Workers.

Web Workers
The Web Worker recommendation is partially based off of the prior work done by the Gears team on their WorkerPool Module. The idea has since grown and been tweaked to become a full recommendation.

A 'worker' is a script that will be loaded and executed in the background. Web Workers provide a way to do this seamlessly, for example:

new Worker("worker.js");
The above will load the script, located at 'worker.js', and execute it in the background.

There are some HUGE stipulations, though:

Workers don't have access to the DOM. No document, getElementById, etc. (The notable exceptions are setTimeout, setInterval, and XMLHttpRequest.)
Workers don't have direct access to the 'parent' page.
With these points in mind the big question should be: How do you actually use a worker and what is it useful for?

You use a worker by communicating with it using messages. All browsers support passing in a string message (Firefox 3.5 also supports passing in JSON-compatible objects). This message will be communicated to the worker (the worker can also communicate messages back to the parent page). This is the extent to which communication can occur.

The message passing is done using the postMessage API, working like this:

var worker = new Worker("worker.js");
// Watch for messages from the worker
worker.onmessage = function(e){
// The message from the client:
e.data
};

worker.postMessage("start");

The Client:

onmessage = function(e){
if ( e.data === "start" ) {
// Do some computation
done()
}
};
function done(){
// Send back the results to the parent page
postMessage("done");
}

This particular message-passing limitation is in place for a number of reasons: It keeps the child worker running securely (since it can't, blatantly, affect a parent script) and it keeps the parent page thread-safe (having the DOM be thread safe would be a logistical nightmare for browser developers).

Right now Web Workers are implemented by Firefox 3.5 and Safari 4. They've also landed in the latest Chromium nightlies. Most people would balk when hearing this (only two released browsers!) but this shouldn't be a concern. Workers allow you to take a normal piece of computation and highly parallelize it. In this way you can easily have two versions of a script (one that runs in older browsers and one that runs in a worker, if it's available). Newer browsers will just run that much faster.

Some interesting demos have already been created that utilize this new API.
http://ejohn.org/blog/web-workers/

----------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 06:51 PM EDT
Msg. 302047 of 302059
(Reply to 302046 by interwovenkills)


Oh look it's mirror posting with another Raging Bull username. I thought you said you don't do that mirror? Getting desperate? Desperate enough to risk being banned from Raging Bull? That would probably be what you want since you could tell your bakers you can't post anymore.

By the way your claims about Watson are a distorted half truth as usual. The analytics might be written in languages like Java and C++ but the underlying foundation for Watson's semantic data is done in OWL.

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_V/threadview?bn=33693&tid=50636&mid=50654

You need to apologize for trying to trick people reading your posts.

---------------------------------


By: moonpunk
10 Jun 2011, 07:01 PM EDT
Rating: You rated it:

Msg. 302048 of 302059
(Reply to 302046 by interwovenkills)


http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%
29/Stocks_V/threadview?m=tm&bn=33693&tid=54789&mid=54789&tof=-
1&rt=2&frt=2&off=1&p=0rzNbl_AWsCcsHzzFwT8o.fP675LvYBl87NbsLlPeIf1e8xpL
RCeUuc-
(broken link)

---------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 07:03 PM EDT
Msg. 302049 of 302059
(Reply to 302048 by moonpunk)



mirror We can just let people read your posts in that and other threads to know what kind of person they're dealing with. People should put you on ignore to keep from having to try to tell what's truth and what's deception. Oh and they should ignore Interwovenkills because it's simply you in another username. And that's something that is definitely a Terms of Service violation.

---------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 07:16 PM EDT
Msg. 302050 of 302059
(Reply to 302049 by moonpunk)


Portuno,
Where does it say that using a new name is a TOS offense? It is alway pretty obvious who I am, just like it is always obvious who you are. I'm starting to get tired of mrrrfk, aren't you? Don't worry, I'm not trying to trick you. LOL.

------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 08:26 PM EDT
Msg. 302051 of 302059
(Reply to 302008 by mrrrfk)


mirror So you lied to people? Really? You thought you could get away with it? Seriously? Who do you think you are?

-----------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 08:32 PM EDT
Msg. 302052 of 302059
(Reply to 302008 by mrrrfk)



This is what you said on post 302008:

You are replying to mrrrfk's message, shown below: (Scroll past this message) By: mrrrfk
10 Jun 2011, 02:52 PM EDT Msg. 302008 of 302051
(Msg. is a reply to 302005 by moonpunk.) Nope. TextMyFood is based on Ruby-on-Rails, a real modern-day programming language, not Water.
Their LinkedIn accounts tell us this:
http://www.linkedin.com/search?
search=¤tCompany=C&company=TextMyFood&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=true&g
oback=%
2Efps_PBCK_Michael+plusch_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_1_
R_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_
*2
(broken link)


When you go to that link it says this:


Enterprise SEO - Own Page One! Optimize Your Website's Visibility in Search Engines. - From Team Pure Visibility
People

« Go back to Search Results
« Prev
Next »

Private

Architect / CTO at TextMyFood

Location
Greater Boston Area
Industry
Computer Software

Overview

Current

Architect / CTO at TextMyFood

Past

Consultant / Architect at CORE Business Technologies
CTO at Clear Methods
Project / Development Manager at Bowstreet

see all...
Education

Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Massachusetts Institute of Technology - Sloan School of Management

Connections
142 connections

Share
Print

Expanded profile views are available only to premium account holders. Upgrade your account.
Summary

Highly adept, visionary, MIT educated technology executive with business and technical acumen, forging solid relationships with clients and technical personnel. Focused on end-to-end software product development and the design/promotion of new technology products to increase company revenues for start-up and growth organizations. Extensive experience in both development and business including client relationship management, product management, and technology development processes. Demonstrated success in building and leading cross-functional teams working on cutting-edge technology. Expert in usability, prototyping, and interface design for adaptable Web-based interfaces, point-of-sale systems, and rich-client applications.
Specialties

System Architecture, Product Strategy, Software Development, Business Strategy, Prototyping, Information Architecture, Project Management, Bridging business and tech, Graphic design


No Ruby on Rails

DO YOU SEE RUBY ON RAILS THERE? No. Why? Did you intend to deceive readers? Or was this just another of your careless "accidents"?

No wonder you posted what you did when I asked somebody to open up that link. You really think people are stupid don't you?

--------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 08:33 PM EDT
Msg. 302053 of 302059


You people really need to think every time you open a post by mrrrfk aka Interwovenkills. Anybody who takes him seriously is nothing but a scammer

--------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 08:39 PM EDT
Msg. 302054 of 302059
(Reply to 302052 by moonpunk)


moonpunk,
Try the founder's link, Audrey J, and you will see the references to RoR. The ClearMethods dudes work for him now. Audry J is the founder of TextMyFood.

To get to it directly, try:
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?
id=3944414&authType=OUT_OF_NETWORK&authToken=hYye&locale=en_US&srchid=
1a0ce680-0217-48e1-a63f-10d840f3ab89-
0&srchindex=2&srchtotal=4&goback=%
2Efps_PBCK_Michael+plusch_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_1_R
_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2%
2Efps_PBCK_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_TextMyFood_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_1_R_tru
e_*1_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2&pvs=p
s&trk=pp_profile_name_link
(broken link)

--------------------------------------

By: dartanyion 10 Jun 2011, 08:43 PM EDT
Msg. 302055 of 302059
(Reply to 302050 by mrrrfk)


I really hate to break it to you mrrrfk's but if we click on the TOS(triangle) one of the selections is multiple aliases, so "yes" it is a TOS offense...

---------------------------------

By: stockwabbit 10 Jun 2011, 08:48 PM EDT
Msg. 302057 of 302059
(Reply to 302055 by dartanyion)


LOL...........

Thump.

---------------------------------

By: mrrrfk 10 Jun 2011, 08:51 PM EDT
Msg. 302058 of 302059
(Reply to 302055 by dartanyion)


dartanyion, thanks for letting me know. I don't TOS people much so I didn't see that. The actual Terms & Conditions link at the bottom of this page doesn't mention multiple aliases. I don't think so, anyway - it's freaking long! LOL.

-------------------------------

By: moonpunk 10 Jun 2011, 08:53 PM EDT
Msg. 302059 of 302059


Don't report him just yet. Let's keep him around. It's fun to see just how much he doesn't know.

And to make sure nothing is left misunderstood.

Posted by Portuno Diamo at 6:43 PM EDT

Updated: Sunday, 12 June 2011 6:59 PM EDT

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Mood:  cool

 Case Calendar

EVENT DATE/RULE (if applicable)
Initial Case Management Conference May 12, 2011
Last Day to Serve Initial Disclosure of Asserted Claims and Preliminary Infringement Contentions (and related documents) May 26, 2011 (P.L.R. 3-1: 14 days after CMC)
Last Day to Serve Preliminary Invalidity Contentions (and related documents) July 14, 2011
Last Day to Exchange List of “Proposed Terms and Claim Elements for Construction”August 1, 2011
Last Day to File Joint Claim Construction and Prehearing Statement September 12, 2011
Claim Construction Discovery Closes October 12, 2011 (P.L.R. 4-4:
Opening Claim Construction Brief October 27, 2011 (P.L.R.. 4-5(a):

8 JOINT CASE MANAGEMENT STATEMENT
CASE NO. 10-CV-4645-RS
EVENT DATE/RULE (if applicable)
claim construction statement)
Responsive Claim Construction Brief November 14, 2011 (P.L.R. 4-5b: 14 days after
opening brief, plus 3 days per FRCP 6(d))
Reply Claim Construction Brief November 28, 2011 (P.L.R. 4-5c: 7 days after responsive brief, plus 3 days per FRCP 6(d))
Claim Construction Hearing December 12, 2011 (P.L.R. 4-6: two weeks after reply brief, subject to Court’s schedule)
Status Conference Following claim construction hearing, subject to
court’s schedule Final Infringement Contentions Per P.L.R. 3-6 (30 days after claim construction ruling)
Final Invalidity Contentions Per P.L.R. 3-6 (50 days after claim construction ruling)
Patent holder to serve willfulness documents;
Alleged infringer to serve opinion of counsel Per P.L.R. 3-8 (50 days after claim construction ruling)
Trial (To be determined; subject to Court’s schedule

17. Trial
The parties propose that the Court hold a Status Conference after the claim construction ruling to set the trial date and the remainder of the schedule. The case will be tried to a jury. Interwoven expects trial will last 7 days. Vertical expects trial will last 5 days.

18. Disclosure of Non-Party Interested Entities or Persons
Interwoven filed its “Certification of Interested Entities or Persons” on February 7, 2011. Vertical intends to file its “Certification of Interested Entities or Persons” on May 12, 2011.

Dated: May 5, 2011
Respectfully submitted,
By: /s/ Bijal V. Vakil
Attorneys for Plaintiff
Interwoven, Inc.
Respectfully submitted,
By: /s/ Vasilios Dossas
Attorneys for Defendant
Vertical Computer Systems, Inc..
Case3:10-cv-04645-RS Document55 Filed05/05/11 Page8 of 91

9 JOINT CASE MANAGEMENT STATEMENT
CASE NO. 10-CV-4645-RS
ATTESTATION CLAUSE
I, Bijal V. Vakil, hereby attest in accordance with General Order No. 45.X that Vasilios D. Dossas, Counsel for Vertical Computer Systems, Inc. has provided his concurrence with the electronic filing of the foregoing document entitled JOINT CASE MANAGEMENT STATEMENT AND [PROPOSED] SCHEDULING ORDER.
Dated: May 5, 2 

Posted by Portuno Diamo at 12:55 PM EDT

Updated: Friday, 6 May 2011 7:36 PM EDT

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Mood:  caffeinated

On your marks... get set...

Posted by Portuno Diamo at 12:46 PM EDT

Updated: Sunday, 12 June 2011 6:56 PM EDT

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http://web.archive.org/web/20040608013838/http://emilysolutions.com/Papers/vhll.html#section1

(excerpts)
Frederick Brooks, in his famous article "Essence and Accidents of Software Engineering" (IEEE Computer Magazine, April 1987) gives an excellent explanation of the situation: large software systems are the most complex artifacts of human civilization; the very property of software that makes it so useful (its malleability) also makes software very difficult to produce. Brooks poses a question to sum up the entire problem: Why has the cost-to-performance ratio of computer hardware decreased by five orders of magnitude in the last 30 years, while the cost-to-performance ratio of software has not improved by even a single order of magnitude?

---------------------

That was written ten years ago so the question has compounded in importance. The situation in general hasn't changed. In fact, given the stagnation and waste generated by the many dead-ends, restatements, and missed opportunities costing the clients of the computing world at large, the situation has gotten much worse.

And people like mirror laugh about it because they know they're stealing their customers blind. He likes that because he claims it proves him right.

That's a condemnation of development techniques considered the rule within the software industry for the past four decades.

I suggest the reader work through the following and do so with an open mind:

Posted by Portuno Diamo at 1:30 PM EST

Updated: Friday, 18 March 2011 1:13 PM EDT

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Mood:  flirty

VCSY follows up Interwoven's lawsuit of October 14, 2010 attempt to have portions of patents 6826744 and 7716629 ruled invalid and unenforceable:

Interwoven versus Vertical Computer

with one of their own November 15, 2010:

Vertical Computer versus Interwoven, LG and Samsung

Posted by Portuno Diamo at 3:35 PM EST

Updated: Tuesday, 16 November 2010 3:49 PM EST

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Mood:  accident prone

Once upon a time an idea is so basic and good it sticks around and festers until it pops.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/opinion/08cringeley.html

Several years ago, the company found a way to build a data center quickly and easily by simply filling a warehouse with stacked shipping containers — each one filled with computers. You just plug the containers together and flip the switch. Clever.

Google actually borrowed the shipping container concept from The Internet Archive, a digital library, which envisioned using such containers to replicate its archive in locations all around the world. Once Larry Page, a co-founder of Google, learned how they could work, he saw shipping containers as a way for Google, too, to get its data closer to users.

Proximity to users is important because of the way that data moves around the Internet — by hopping from one router to another. Each router looks at the packet of data and sends it on in the appropriate direction; the average data packet hops 18 times as it makes its way across the Internet. Because each hop takes time — only a matter of milliseconds, but still measurable time — the best way to speed transmission is to reduce the hops. This can be done either by creating a figurative fast lane, which violates net neutrality, or by simply putting the data closer to the user, which doesn’t.

Google’s agreement with Verizon could very well be merely a way for Google to get its data closer to users, by dropping its shipping containers into Verizon data centers, or perhaps their parking lots. The phone company’s data centers, after all, are typically only one or two hops from Internet users.

So... having gateways geophysically close to users (as in one's home country) is more than just a gimmick, isn't it? Why, yes it is. It's an understanding of how latency damages the experience and immediacy breeds intimacy.

Posted by Portuno Diamo at 4:21 AM EDT

Updated: Wednesday, 11 August 2010 4:27 AM EDT

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Mood:  d'oh

I had a little problem storing this here:

 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=138578&l=ef1fc615be&id=100000645764055

So I figgered I would put it here for safe keeping.

Any ideas? 

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_V/threadview?m=ts&bn=33693&tid=33154&mid=33171&tof=1&rt=2&frt=2&off=1

Re: facebook and iframe/an asp.net     28 minutes ago    

Because XML is a markup language like HTML and they can look similar with those ugly tags and all.

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_V/threadview?m=ts&bn=33693&tid=33154&mid=33172&tof=1&rt=2&frt=2&off=1

Re: facebook and iframe/an asp.net     8 minutes ago    

I see. So how are you so certain it's HTML? You usually don't seem disposed to believe marketing writeups but you whole heartedly appear to believe those that make your case.

Like I said, languages are hard to hide because what they look like is what usually sticks out from under the tarp.

And if Facebook has "made up" a language that looks like XML but YOU swear is HTML... OK.

Then it's not HTML5 either, is it?

So Facebook, according to your reading, has gone rogue and decided screw XML and screw HTML5 WE'RE GOING TO WRITE OUR OWN LANGUAGE!!!

Yeah. 

That just doesn't sound like reasonable people running a company.

Could it be they want this whole "XML programming/HTML5 rescue of XHTML desires" controversy to be resolved before they come out and tell the world how Facebook came up with this "brand new language" and are now able to interoperate not only with Microsoft but everyone else and yet are not calling it HTML5... or letting the rest of the HTML5 community in on how they're doing the functionality Facebook is doing with markup?

I didn't think HTML5 was that far along. In fact, as far as anyone knows, HTML5 is only right now trying to conquer the video hurdle. 

In fact, the standards bodies W3C and WHATWG don't seem to carry any mention of the kind of programmatic markup commands being used in Facebook XFBML.

WTF????

Did something happen we're not seeing? Is somebody hiding something? What do you think?

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_V/threadview?m=ts&bn=33693&tid=33154&mid=33174&tof=1&rt=2&frt=2&off=1

Re: facebook and iframe/an asp.net     1 minute ago    

FBML is a nonstandard form of HTML with proprietary extensions that are Facebook-specific. I don't know why you find this difficult to accept. I gave you a link. There are plenty of HTML variations out there. What's the big deal?

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_V/threadview?m=ts&bn=33693&tid=33154&mid=33175&tof=1&rt=2&frt=2&off=1

Re: facebook and iframe/an asp.net     6 second(s) ago    

This is the big deal.

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_V/threadview?m=ts&bn=33693&tid=33154&mid=33173&tof=1&rt=2&frt=2&off=1

Facebook's markup language for executing programmatic functionality seems to look like XML and act like XML and not necessarily HTML.

But you insist it's HTML. Just "non-standard".

So it's not HTML5. It's a new language Facebook made to appear to be HTML... that looks and acts more like XML would.

Just curious.

You know me. I can't let anything rest. If something's sticking out from under a cover, I have to lift the cover and ask what's under there.

You know, if Facebook is moving the ball like this, then the rest of the vendors and users waiting for more HTML5 functionality are screwed. Facebook and Microsoft appear to be sneaking off the field with the ball.

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_V/threadview?m=ts&bn=33693&tid=33154&mid=33173&tof=1&rt=2&frt=2&off=1

Re: facebook and iframe/an asp.net     3 minutes ago    

Yeah. In fact, the only difference between XML and HTML is the underlying processing of the tags and vocabulary syntax.

So HTML and XML are only separated by semantics.

So HTML has prior art as a programming language... so HTML5 can't claim any novelty in using HTML to build programmatic functional operation.

But XML is well known for ONLY being designed and used to describe data and data structure.

So any first use of XML as a programmatic functional language... is novel; it's an extension of the use cases of the XML family toward something entirely new.

And HTML? Not.

No wonder they took the HTML verbiage out of the Emily patent application. That would not be patentable because HTML has prior art in that area before circa 1999.

But XML does not have prior art in that are before circa 1999.

So, removing the references to HTML from the Emily patent application frees up the language to specifically teach in the XML domain before anyone could do so.

I see. No wonder the industry "abandoned" the use of XML (as mirror claims) for functional programming.

And if this language Facebook has looks like XML but "isn't"... and if this language Facebook has looks like HTML... but isn't HTML5...

...what is it and where did it come from?

More importantly to us, I think: where is it going?

Posted by Portuno Diamo at 8:05 PM EDT

Updated: Friday, 23 April 2010 10:32 PM EDT

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Mood:  accident prone

So, I have only one question.

If patent 6826744 and 7076521 are unenforceable, where are the flood of products that should be out there by now based on the patents?

Not.

We do see Microsoft pressing full steam ahead but that's to be expected. We know they have a license for 6826744 from July 2008.

Based on Microsoft's descriptions of Windows Mobile 7 they appear to be able to use 7076521.

but ...

We don't see Google, or Adobe or IBM trumpeting anything close.

Open-source? Amazon just licensed what Microsoft has. Just how "unenforceable" is this brave new web-based computing world?

Apparently not very.

If you don't believe it, simply enter a comment and explain why. I'm all ears... and fingers.

Posted by Portuno Diamo at 11:57 AM EST

Updated: Wednesday, 24 February 2010 12:24 PM EST

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